welcome to the Hardscape Mentor podcast And and welcome to Hardscape Mentor Studios. It's been awesome getting to know you and the services that you provide for the contractors around the country. You help a lot of our Hardscape Mentor members out with their website and their digital footprint, and a lot of showing up nowadays has changed and what these contractors need to do. So let's just dive into right away. Let's just dive into and talk a little bit about what contractors need to do in the day and age we live in now with their digital footprint, how that's ever evolving and what you've seen, you know, change in the past few years here. It's a good thing I'm comfortable sitting here because that's going to be a long conversation. Yeah.
Well, things that have changed in the, in the marketing world are a lot, in the past, you know, you have a hardscape contractor, you have a website, you know, and that used to be good enough. Then came social media, right. So you needed to be in two places. You need to be either on Facebook and your website. And now introducing YouTube and Instagram and third party websites that you're all over the internet. Your your information is spread across so many different places. So the first thing that I would think as somebody in marketing that I would tell a contractor is making sure your information is the same across all platforms. They call that nap a nap name, address, phone.
If your phone number is different on your Google Business listing or your Facebook page, maybe you have a cell phone listed here or your business number there that messes with those search results. So first thing nap. Nap. Name, address, phone. Make sure it all matches everywhere. That's a that's a big key factor in something people probably take for granted, right? Oh you have no idea. Just that consistency with branding. I think when people think of branding, they stop short of what what it really means to run that brand to the full length and running that brand to the full length is what you're doing with their digital footprint, right? Oh, yeah. We we're applying the ABCs of branding, right.
If you apply ABC to everything always branding constantly. Right. So your your hats, your shirts, your trucks, your business cards, your website, your Google profile, your YouTube, everything, you're carrying your brand across all aspects of that. So the more you can keep things uniform and on brand, the easier it is or the easier it becomes in the long run to make sure that everything is on point. So how are these? How are the top guys showing up? Because I think that's what it's all about, is we're all trying to generate these leads. We're all trying to get the best leads so we can pick the best projects. Yeah. I've always said it's not about the leads that you're bringing in.
It's about the type of leads you're bringing in. But to bring in the good leads, you have to bring in a lot of leads. Yes. So and to bring in a lot of leads, you got to show up on these searches, on these search results. Yeah. So so how is a guy showing up on the search results now. And why is there competition showing up above them or below them. Well, the first thing that I can say about showing up, when it comes to marketing is you, you never stop. I've heard a lot of people talk about, well, you know, my schedule is full for the year, so I'm going to cut back on my marketing.
That's the worst thing that you can do. Marketing is not something that you just turn on, turn off. It's something that you're constantly doing, always staying consistent. And that's where most contractors fail. They're not consistent. They run Google ads for a month or two, and then they get, you know, 4 or 5 solid leads. They sign those jobs, and then they pull back their money from Google ads, and they don't pay anymore because they've got enough work for the next 3 or 4 months to keep them busy. So why should I keep paying Google for that? That's the absolute worst thing that you could possibly do. The best thing that you can do is keep that branding consistent.
Keep your ad flow consistent is to bring in those leads. And when you get a high quality lead through the door, most of the times they're willing to wait. And they'll wait up to six eight months a year, depending on who you are. If your branding is on point and you can prove that you're the guy, there's nobody else. Regardless of what the cost is and what the timeline is, they'll wait, I guess, I guess I've, I like that you said that because I think a lot of these guys fall into that trap of they don't have any work. Now it's time to market. Yeah, well, no, I don't have any money to market either, so.
Bingo. So it's like, maybe you should think about your marketing, you know, when your bank account is full and thriving and that would change your perspective a little bit, right? Yeah. It's all about balance. Right. So in this area of the world, up in Wisconsin, up here, people that are in the hardscaping world or the outdoor services business, once it starts to snow, they don't want to put any marketing money into marketing for a while. It's snow on the ground. Makes no sense. Right. And people in Arizona, they don't market in July and August when it's 114 degrees every day, you know, but they still have to work. So there's different times of year where you spend more, not completely shut it down.
You spend more in your spring months or at the end of winter into spring to start filling your schedule. What's your schedule starts getting full. Then you drop your brand dollars or your ad dollars down a little bit, but you never stop. Takes about two months, 2 to 3 months for a good ad campaign. If you're paying Google ads or Facebook ads or something like that. If you're paying Google for Google Ads, it takes about 2 or 3 months for an ad campaign to actually gain traction. So on that third month is when you're going to see your results. So after three months and you filled your schedule, you're going to shut it down just as it's starting to gain traction.
So do you keep it going? Yes. You keep it going. Yeah. Keep it going and fill that schedule out for the rest of the year into next year. Now, if you're sitting on two years worth of work that opens up a whole other series of possibilities. Do you hire more crew? Do you bring in a subcontractor? You know, all of those things are possible. I know of companies that have been running their own crews, 2 or 3 crews every year. Religiously. They do between two and a half to $3 million a year, and they have three of their own crews. We built them a website. They increase their marketing. They're doing high level blogging. We're doing Facebook posts and Instagram posts for them.
We're also handling their Google ads well in less than, about 18 months or so. They've taken their business to a $6 million a year business because they're actually bringing in subcontractors. They're selling the jobs, turning around, handing them off to their subcontractors. I was going to say too many leads is a good thing, and it allows you to grow your business. A lot of these people are wondering how they grow their business. If you're comfortable growing your yes, that's if that's an avenue you want to go. Yeah. And your personality and your make up allows you to grow a company that big. It's just something that you can't forget about. You don't just go out and buy the equipment.
You get the work load first. Right? Exactly. Yeah. It's just a matter of preference. Some people are happy, you know, with themselves as the leader of their team. They have 2 or 3 guys, maybe four. They've got a couple of trucks, maybe a machine or two. They're happy with that. They can make enough money to survive. They're not looking to, you know, change the world and bring in, you know, massive amounts of money. They're happy with where they are. There's less stress. There's a lot of reasons why people do that. And then there are people that don't want to get their hands dirty. They just want to manage as, successful company that brings in constant leads.
They oversee all the jobs that the that the subcontractors are doing, and they've got a good pool of contractors to choose from. Yeah. So the smaller companies who want to stay niche and do the custom quality work, they're still advertising the same because they're looking for the biggest, best job. Bingo. But then these larger companies who want to grow ten crews, they're looking for all the leads as well. So it really benefits both parties because you don't have to take every lead that comes in, or you can start to set your company up to take every lead that comes in. Right. Well, I just want to talk about you touched on when we say digital footprint, right.
When I say that, when I say digital footprint. And you've schooled me a lot on this, that's why I love hanging out with you. You're the expert in this category when it says digital footprint. You just mentioned Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, all these socials as a part of the website as well, or the blogging that you talk about. So yeah, if I just have a business Facebook page and I have nothing else, am I showing up? No. If I add a Facebook and Instagram, am I showing up? No. So it's like all these pillars play a part in me showing up. So explain to me how that what that looks like. I mean what I'm saying there. Yeah I do 100%.
I'll take it back. I don't I'm not say you're not showing up, okay. let me take let me take that back. You're showing up in a very small segment online. Not saying that Instagram doesn't work because there is an audience for Instagram Reels that are out there, but they're only consuming Instagram content. So if you want to expand that footprint, you need to link stuff together. Your Instagram can sync with Facebook, right? So on a Facebook post or reel or something like that. And what I said, name, address, phone number, right. All that stays the same. But now you're adding something which I call what, where and how. What are you talking about? Paver patios.
Where are you talking about paver patios in Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin. And then how do I learn more? Or how do I contact you those three things on everything that you do online. So Facebook, especially today, I'm with Dan Preston from Preston Hardscapes. Today we're in Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin. We're building a paver patio for this great couple, blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah to learn more about our paver patio, visit our YouTube channel or watch this YouTube video, or visit our website and link the actual paver patio page from your website, which should have a lot of information on it on page two or patios for them to learn more. You're you're linking like content with like content. Now, you mentioned high level blogging.
Blogging is like a four letter word. Blog was a four letter word 15 years ago when it came out and everybody was like, oh, you have to blog, you have to blog. Well, what people realized were that they were spending all this time or paying somebody to create blogs, but there was no quantifiable method to see if it was actually working. The only way that you could do that is if you actually searched for it and it showed up online. But if you're not adding the correct search engine optimization to your blogs, they're not showing up online. It's just adding content to your website keeps it fresh, but it's not doing anything if you can get those blogs to show up online.
Better yet, in today's world AI search results. That's what they're looking for, specific new content, and they're going to pull the information out of the blogs and off your website to give to people that are searching for stuff on those platforms. So if I'm saying I'm in Wisconsin Rapids building patios on my Instagram and I'm saying I'm in Wisconsin Rapids building patios on my YouTube, and I say, I'm in Wisconsin Rapids building patios on my blog, that's what you're talking about. Yes. Consistency in the branding. Yes. Always branding. Constantly. Right. So name, address, phone, wherever applicable. And what, where and how? What are you talking about? Where and how do I learn more? Or how do I contact you?
So who's showing up right now? BJ what are the what are these top guys who you're working with? Who you know, because I know you evaluate. You love evaluating people's digital footprints when they think they got a good one. And you can tell them real quick. It's like, no, look, you didn't even show up here. So these top dogs, these guys who are showing up at the top, what are they physically doing to show up at the top? What are they doing. That's probably that's probably an easier question altogether. Yeah. You know, like myself, I consider myself to have a face for radio. Right. So I'm not a YouTube guy. Could I do YouTube? Yes.
Am I comfortable doing YouTube? No. So I don't do that for my own business. But there are people out there that are really good at doing YouTube videos. YouTube videos are probably top five things that you need to do on a daily basis. If you don't do it, have somebody in your company do it. Somebody will. Somebody you know, younger. If you're older, you don't know how. You can always find somebody, hire somebody that's into doing it. So the best digital footprint includes a YouTube channel? Yeah, 100%. Okay, we got that. Let's do a checklist of what the best. I mean, maybe not a full checklist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, I guess to get some of these people realizing like, well, I don't have that start there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if you don't have anything, the first thing you do is start a Facebook page. Yeah. That's the easiest thing to do. I mean, and it doesn't cost you anything and you basically just run through. You can add photos, videos, you can, upload, you know, content, so to speak, you know, involving, you know what, where and how. For every day that you do something, being consistent in posting is really important. Keeping your Facebook pages active, you know, if your guys are on a job site someplace, that job is it's got endless amounts of content that you can put out there to increase your digital footprint. You know, today we're doing the excavation.
You know, tomorrow we're doing the base prep, next day we're laying out our patterns. The next day we're laying pavers. Now we're cutting pavers. Now we're sealing pavers or or sweeping, you know, stuff into the into the joints. Next day we're sealing all of that stuff becomes day after day after day of content. And what that looks like to a future client means you're busy. And not only that, it puts a face to your company when you show up at their house, the next client's house, and they found you on Facebook or wherever. Oh, I saw that guy online. And when your workers show up, oh, those are the guys that I saw online. Makes me feel comfortable that I'm having that crew that I saw online and felt comfortable with calling or contacting.
They're showing up. So we got YouTube. You got Facebook. Instagram kind of goes right in through with Facebook. Instagram is more reel related or video related. And one thing that drives me nuts when it comes to video content is everybody holds their phone this way up and down, because that's the way Instagram Reels and Facebook Reels come across me. As a website designer, I need the phone this way because on a screen that long video doesn't show up so, so good. So when you're trying to increase that digital footprint, make sure you do a couple different videos, think of your web guys will appreciate it. So I'm just going to run with social media. Then I'm going to have my Facebook my Instagram and my YouTube.
Why do I need a website? Because you have to hook them all together, okay. And that's where that's where the key, the link comes in. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if you can see me. You can see my face, but you can see this. Right? So what I call a link to a linking strategy, right. So if this is your website, right. And you have a page on paver patios and on your paver patio page, you put a hyperlink to a YouTube video over here. That's a paver patios. You click here. And now you can go through. And now you're on your YouTube page on that YouTube video, in the description you say. To learn more about our paver patio information, visit our website and link that YouTube video back to that paver patio page and that closes that loop.
So that means a search bot can go in this hyperlink, go to YouTube, and then come out of YouTube and go back to your website. That's a closed loop. Now, how many paver patios that you build or whatever come or can accessorize with a fire pit, outdoor lighting, outdoor kitchen, seating areas, pergolas, whatever it may be. If I can talk about on my website about my paver patios and my fire pit and on the fire pit page, I. I know that paver patios can go around it. I link back to that. Now, what I'm doing is taking content and daisy chaining it like this together and creating a chain link, so to speak, of content that goes from patios to fire pits to kitchens to pergolas, pergolas to kitchens, to fire pits, to patios and everything that I do that has more than one subject matter I can do that with.
And what's the value in that when Google comes to see it, or other search engines or I or anybody comes to see it? It's like a direct access to more content. Google's bots or whatever search engine you're using. They're bots. And AI search bots are hungry for content, and the more content you have and the more content you can link together, the stronger your search results become. Those guys are showing up on the top that those those guys that are showing up on top. In today's world, they've got 100 times the content than a normal website does. I mean, and I'm serious, 100 times the content. We have a client, Bloomington, Illinois. Bloomington, Minnesota. They've got, I don't know, 25, 30 different service pages that content on those service pages.
There's probably between 1500 and 2500 words of text on that page. And then there are 10 to 12 FAQs on that page, with maybe 3 or 4 sentences for each question as an answer. And then those questions are linked to blogs, which have 1500 to 2000 words that back up those questions and answers. So let's do some quick math. If there's ten FAQ use at 2000 words, that's 20,000 words in FAQs plus the 2000 words on their page. That's a lot of content backing that up. And that's what AI is looking for. They're they're addicted to content I love that. So is this something that that you think is a contractor or maybe someone in-house could handle on their own?
Sure. Maybe the Facebook, the Instagram. But when it comes to like putting all this effort into their website, I feel like that's something that we're going to reach out to some someone to help them with that. If you can wear that hat, wear it. Sure. But how many hats do you wear in your company? Right? Right. You're the designer, you're the installer or the salesman. You're the marketing guy. You're the the billing. You're the receiving. You're the ordering. You're I mean, how many, how many jobs can you take on? You know, if you're doing it for a small company, is it possible? Yeah, it's possible, but at the same time, you know, do you have time to do that?
Because it does take time and it takes consistency. What to say? That's been a key word you've been saying through this whole thing is the consistency of yeah brother. Once you start doing something, stay consistent at it. Right when you start showing up, if you if you if you slide, then you're not going to be showing up anymore. I guess that's we can say that about life in general, but also about your digital footprint. It's also about your website. When you're talking about adding all this content, you can't just go in and create 100 blogs and load it up on your website and publish it. They consider that spam. You know, you're trying to overload their system with content.
They want to see fresh content coming out. So what we suggest is a blog a week. So on that website 20, let's say 20 service pages ten FAQ, that's ten blogs per page, that's 200 blogs. That's over four years of blogs ready and waiting to be published. If you do one a week. So is it fair to say if you're if you're if your competition is adding that blog that they're putting more content out there to like, you got everything is equal, you got Instagram or there's so many variables there. It's like, how much are they doing on their social media? How much are they doing on their website? How much are they doing on their blog?
But it's like adding that all together and just making right the companies that we work for. We're handling all their blogs for them. So we build the content for their websites, we build the websites, obviously, and we handle the blogging services at a high level. We call it high level blogging because it's essentially building a web page. We add the necessary search engine optimization, answer engine optimization, geo search engine optimization, which is basically showing up on geo locations throughout search results. So all of that stuff is applied to our blogs. It's hard to learn that. Can you learn that stuff? Yes. Can I do some of that stuff for you? Yes. But there's also something called schema code, which most people don't understand.
Schema code is what search engines read. They don't go to your website and read the page. They don't read the content on it. They read the code behind the page. And that's where we come in. To put in the correct schema codes, there's FAQ schema codes. There's regular content schema codes. There's all of that stuff that backs up everything that's on the website. So when it when you say, you know, I want to change this, or I would rather see this on a, on a web page, that's fine. But it's not just the front end. You have to change that. And then you change all the code on the back end. I can generate a lot of that for you, but if you don't know where to put it or how to apply it, that's when things can either really work well or not work at all.
Yeah, which is definitely why I suggest reaching out to someone like Outdoor Network Services. Just when you said the word schema, it's like, I'm out, I can type, yeah, I can type up what I do. But it's like when it comes to that, you know, that's a little bit over my head. So reaching out to you, yeah. Look, insert that, insert a little clip of that, you know, e that kind of freaking, you know, question marks and stuff coming out of the top of his head. Yeah, because that's where your mind goes to right away. But I guess I, I just want to touch on it a little bit. And I love the information that you've shared so far.
I think it at least makes, makes, these contractors realize, am I doing these things or not? Was I doing these things that I'm not need anymore? And then. And what does my lead flow look like in relationship to this? Because I think they blame their lead flow on other things. When when deep down it really could be them and their consistency with their digital stuff. Right? Yeah. It's the lead flow is like the elephant in the room. I get it all the time. You know, if I do all this, what can I see? What am I, what's my lead flow going to be? I have no idea. Can't tell you. Yeah, I can give you a rough estimate.
I can show you examples on contractors in similar sized markets that do similar things that you what they saw. That's usually about as far as we can go, as far as lead flow goes. Anybody that says they can promise you lead flow, nope. Can't happen. You're going to spend money, you spend enough money, you're going to get enough leads. Right? So bigger companies that are spending 3 to 5 to $10,000 a month in Google ads and, you know, search engine marketing ads. Okay, then, yeah, I can say that. But most of these companies that we work with don't do that, like less than 10% of them will spend anything more than two grand a month on AD.
So when you're talking about keeping all of that stuff current, having the best footprint and having the content creation is the biggest part where everybody just falls flat, they fall flat 100% of the time. The.
The search game has changed drastically. Google is losing its place in the marketplace rapidly, very rapidly. Less than a month and a half ago, it was up to 70% of Google's searches are gone. People aren't using Google to search anymore. More recently, I've seen numbers of 73 to 76% of Google searches are now gone. And what that means when when I say gone is people are using ChatGPT Gemini Perplexity, Claude Copilot and smattering of other less well known AI chat bots to search for things. And the reason is the instantaneous, if that's even a word, the instant gratification of what they're looking for. No longer are you searching for hardscape contractor in Wisconsin Rapids, and it's showing you, just a static, boring list of clickable links for then you to go and try and decide if this company on your own is what you're looking for.
And this company, you're not doing that research because research takes time. If I can take that time and shorten it drastically by asking AI or some chat bot to say, hey, you know what? I'm thinking about putting a paver patio in my backyard and I want this patio to possibly have a fire pit, maybe an outdoor kitchen and some lighting. And I don't I don't know what this is going to cost. If you could find me some companies in my area that provide this service with maybe an estimated cost on what this might be, and anything else you think I might need, they see what I did there. I gave it a paragraphs worth of input, and previously I said paver patio installer Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin.
There's a huge difference. So keywords traditionally on websites would have Wisconsin Rapids and paver patios all over it so search engines could find it and put it in that static list on Google. Now, what I'm saying paragraphs of stuff, they're pulling out the keywords from the paragraph. They're pulling out key phrases. They're pulling out questions that I'm asking in in multiples, and they're searching websites for it. And if your websites don't have that content in questions and answer format, you're getting left behind when it comes to AI results. So it's safe to say the guys who are showing up now are adapting to the way that we're searching now. They should. A lot of them aren't.
It's expensive. It's costly to do what we do. And the the downside of it is you need to spend more or spend more time. You need to spend dollars or time. Yeah. Either one. You can spend all the time in the world, but if you're not doing it right now, you're just wasting time, you know? And eventually a web designer will come in and take your content, mix it up, and put it in the right way when you're willing to spend the money for it. But you get what you pay for in today's marketing world. Yeah, for sure. And so to know where you're putting your money into, to trust where you're putting your money into and I, I just got to mention that we're not sitting down with just any web designer.
Like, that is something that I got to get out there. Is that this? Like, who am I? I'm just saying, there's a couple guys on your staff who are who are contractors still to this day or a former contractor. So I think that's really the benefit of like, why, you know, Luke and I find, satisfaction in working with you guys, and we trust in you guys because you're former contractors, former builders, former artists of the year for Aquascape program. And now you're creating these websites for other contractors. Yeah, you speak our language. Oh, yeah. I know your business. I may not understand every little nuance that makes you different from the next guys. You know, certain little things that you do.
But for the most part, dealing with contractors. I've been doing it for 25 or 30 years now. I was a contractor for 20 years myself, understood the value of a dollar, and understood the value of dollars that I didn't have to spend on marketing, that I needed to spend to pay for my trucks and my machines and my labor and taxes and everything else that, you know, came down the pike as a business owner, you get banged over the head with it. But the day that I figured out something with digital marketing was the day my life changed. I was the most passionate pond builder that you could possibly imagine. There was nothing better for me than plugging in a pump on a water feature that I just built for somebody, and watching the reactions that they got.
Now, as I've moved into marketing, there's nothing better for me than turning on a brand new website and marketing system for a company and watching it eat, and watching them run through their process of trying to keep up with what they didn't have before was a steady lead flow and seeing the the hesitation or the scared mentality of, well man, I just signed up for a $2,000 a month marketing plan and I don't have any work yet, and I gotta pay for this until it starts to go. That anxiety is what holds everybody back. So when it starts to eat and they start to go to work and they start to pay their bill, and I start hearing from people, it's no longer, you know, I'm worried about paying my bill.
It's now it's well, you know, we're doing pretty good. We're busy. Is there anything else that I need to do, you know, to keep growing? Yeah. And the answer is always yes. There's always something to do. Very rarely have we hit the ceiling for companies. You know, there's there's always a marketing budget, you know. And that marketing budget includes a lot websites, trucks, t shirts, hats, business cards, the whole nine yards. It's part of that revolver of, you know, marketing for a business. Yeah. So I, I love it that you. So when you talked about, So I love that you were a contractor, like you said. I brought that up for a reason, but it's like when you were a contractor, something happened in you that kind of spurred your interest on why you went into doing this for other contractors.
And I love you. Talked about the satisfaction that you get now, you know, turning the pump on is turning these guys websites on. But what really triggered that BJ and let us know who we're really working with. You. Yeah, well that's a loaded story. See if I can compact it down a little bit. 2008, when the economy crashed, I was in new Jersey sitting at a 36in of snow. I was just about almost homeless, living with two guys in a rent house. I had no food, my phone was shut off, I was stealing my neighbor's internet, and I wrote a Christmas card to all of my customers on an application on Facebook called notes. It's almost like a blog, and it was basically just a Christmas card, a picture of me and a picture of me.
I did some artwork and I sent it to all of my customers. About two weeks later, I was searching my business name on Google and found that note the bottom of page two and light bulb went off and I went. I wonder if I wrote notes on pond insulation and waterfall insulation, building stuff like that, how that would work. So I spent the next 2 to 3 weeks writing every note that I possibly could. I wrote like 60 different notes on maintenance and everything, and in April my phone rang off the hook, I turned my business around just with those Facebook posts. And when I built my first website, it had the same type of effect I applied all the SEO that I learned how to do on Facebook, built a website.
And then it was like one friend and that was a certified contractor with Aquascape on his website. And then another one, and then another one, and then another one. I was doing that on the side to the point where I was making more money building websites than I was building water features I love, and if anyone's seen BJ's work and his water features, it's about putting a lot of integral parts and details together to make the water feature. And I feel like your brain works the same way when you're building these websites. Yeah, you have no idea. Yeah. So rocks, hot rocks in my head and water in my veins. And then finger tips is what gets you your leads.
Yeah. That's awesome. So if you guys want to work with somebody who speaks your language when it comes to your digital footprint, reach out to Outdoor Network Services. Today. B.J and his team will surely set you up for success because like I said, they speak your language. They're contractors building websites for other contractors. So how do people get Ahold of you, BJ? Oh, easy. Just Google Outdoor Network services or look me up on Facebook. I'm really easy to find. BJ linger. It's real easy to find. There's not a lot of BJ's out there in the world. Yeah. So Outdoor Network Services is your go to partner when it comes to all things digital footprint. Thank you so much for sitting down here with us today today BJ.
And like I always say, your digital footprint still has to bring you back to an awesome portfolio. You know, built with your Hardscape Mentor training. So thank you so much for sitting down with us today, BJ. And and we'll see everybody on the next one. Back to you. Welcome to Hardscape Mentor, the go to training platform for learning real jobsite skills anytime, anywhere. We've created 300 plus video lessons covering everything from design to build patios, walls, inlays, flagstone, turf, resin, sand and more. You can watch anytime, anywhere from your phone, tablet or computer. Train yourself or your entire crew. Elite members also get access to our private Facebook group and monthly mastermind calls, where we talk through real projects, answer questions, and learn from each other.
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