Dan Cordoba. Here we go. All right. We're down here in Chicago again. Met up with Dan Cordoba. I've heard a lot about this man from Greg at SEK Surebond, because he is making a name for himself in the Chicago area by separating himself with craftsmanship and quality, which is something you definitely have to do when you're working in a market this size. So then it's good to meeting my man. Good to meet you too. Tell us a little bit about, what's made your company successful in a market this size? Just focusing really on quality, high quality work, attention to detail. You know, as you mentioned, set yourself apart from your competitors, doing things that take extra time, but really, like, the little detail work is, you know, takes the time but really completes the project and sets it apart from just a plain install.
So building a portfolio that doesn't look like anybody else's. Correct. Correct. Mix and materials. You know, multiple borders, inlays. You know, even if you're with some clients, you know, they don't like, contrast. So they really limit your ability to get in different colors and stuff like that. So, you know, to separate an area, maybe just rotating the same material at a 45 degree angle, you know, just so it doesn't look like, like, for example, on a patio, if you do a circular fire pit off of a corner, and if you keep the pattern the same, but then do like a double soldier border, it just kind of looks like you took your saw and you cut it and put it in the border.
But if you turn that pattern in that fire pit area 45 degrees to the rest, it kind of sets that apart and separates it as the fire pit area from the patio. Yes, I'm always talking about designating space, and it can be subtle just by changing the direction of the paver. Right. But the reason we're doing that is because the comp, the competition or the next guy coming in there and showing what they're doing, he's not going to be doing that, right. Correct. So I'm you know, a lot of guys are just trying to get in and out as quickly as they can. You know, more volume or quantity over quality. Yes. A lot of people think you have to add another cruel another crew to scale, right, right.
And to make more money. And a lot of times you can just leverage the crew that you have. Correct. Right. So tell us a little bit about your crew because that was pretty impressive to me. Yeah. So we have one crew doing installs. Two myself, three guys. So one of the guys we hired in 1996, the other guy we hired in 1997, the third guy, you know, newer guy, we hired him in, 22. But in doing that, you know, the guys that have been with us for 30 years or, you know, one guy and guy 29 and one guy 30 years, I've trained them from the start. So going back 20 years, you know, training them how to do cuts and how to do intricate cuts and, how we want everything done.
So now they already know, right? Like, I don't have to tell them like, we want, you know, high quality. We want to do all the details. It's okay. It's going to take a little bit of extra time. That's just how they've always done it. So I don't have to break them. Have any bad habits, you know. Exactly. So when starting a fresh company, trying to make a name for yourself, getting your guys all over these details, I might be a little bit of a struggle. But when you have these experienced guys, because I'm sure they've seen the growth of your projects. Yeah. And the type of your project you're taking on now compared to when they started.
Oh yeah. And then like I'll change some stuff up. Right. Like we did, a couple of years ago, we did a, built in grill. And just to give it a little accent, right before the countertop, I decided to do Unilock Mattoni. But instead of just like a standard, like soldier vertical, I did a, basket weave, you know? So for vertical, for horizontal. And at first they're kind of like, well, I mean, I always changing stuff up, you know, you make it more difficult and like, it is just as easy as doing it all vertical. It's just now we're doing four vertical four horizontal. And then they start doing they're like, oh yeah, it's not that bad you know.
So and then it's just like little stuff. People are like, oh wow. You did a basket weave on the vertical side. Yeah. Why not you know. Yeah. It's exactly because the other guy's not doing that. We can't compare pricing anymore as soon as we start doing stuff like that. Right. You know, my line always is you can't compare apples to jalapenos. Correct? Right. Yeah, yeah. So don't just be apple to apple with everybody, but not only the, the, creativity with the designs and separating yourself that way, but also with the quality. Right. I had a long conversation about callbacks. Yeah, yeah. And how some of these guys just think that's part of their business. Right?
Always going back to the same job and fixing stuff because they have to move on so fast to keep their beast fed. So let's talk a little bit about that too. And you know how you obviously pride yourself on quality and the craftsmanship. Yeah. The integrity I guess what I'm getting. Yeah. Integrity. And and you know really standing behind the quality of your work. There's something that we think of, you know, maybe we're doing something a little different than what we've done before. And partway through, you're like, oh, well, if we did it this way, you know, it's going to be better. You know, we'll spend the extra time to do the high quality way.
And we're, we're focused on, you know, the finished product. It's going to be as close to perfect as possible. Right? You could. I always think you can't really get perfection, but if you're constantly striving for perfection, then you're constantly getting better. And that's the whole goal, right? Like, not to be complacent, not to think that all our work is this good or whatever. It's always actually focusing on improving our work. And what little details could we do better? Just to, you know, make sure that the homeowner is always getting the best, job possible. Yes. And then the next homeowner gets even better job. Yeah. Because you learned a lot on that last job, right. So, yeah, I would say every job is my like every last job.
Every job we complete is our best project. Right. You know, and you know, we'll do we'll do another one or you know, I did jobs last year. I'm like, wow, this is our nicest work yet, right? And then we'll do a job. Earlier this year, I'm like, okay, now this is our nice work. You know? So that's always pretty cool too. Just to kind of keep the, you know, keep things keep, I don't know, interesting or stay motivated that way. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because you're always trying to outdo what you've done and you're always trying to get better. Yes. You know, and if you're always trying to get better and always learning, you know, trying to learn from people like you that have been doing it for, you know, as long as we have.
And, you can always learn something from everybody. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I think some sometimes some of the issues is some newer contractors, you know, they think that they, you do a couple jobs and you think that you really know what you're doing. You know, I've been doing this for my entire life, right? So I learned to lay pavers almost 40 years ago. Right. And I'm always learning things. Right. I've learned more in the last six years than I probably did in the previous 20, you know, which is. Which is crazy. Also, because of the information that's out there now. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you feel like you, you know, putting out info like even, you know, just your little short Instagram clips about, you know, little tips or whatever.
There's always stuff, you know, guys can even myself can learn from. Right. Like I always feel like you can learn something from anybody. You never know really what it is. And if you're if you're open to like, networking and talking to people and paying attention, a lot of people do, you know, it just helps you out and it helps your work out. Yeah. So the competition is yourself and getting better every job and career. I always, joked around like I at a time in my Preston Hardscape Design career, I'd be booked out for two years, you know, and someone would, you know, have an issue with that or something. And it's just like the playoff what you said, I always think, how much better am I going to be in two years?
Right? Right. Exactly. You're going to get a better contractor if you wait a little while, because I'm trying to get better on every job. Yeah, yeah. You'll. Because you'll see something you know you like, even if it's not my own jobs. Even. It's something you post, you know, on, on your account, you know, especially with inlays or, you know, as we talked yesterday, like in terms of, like when you do inlays and how you make everything flow and make it really look good versus like just deciding to plop a inlay here for no reason. You know, so you'll see stuff like that. You know, even I, I especially see that, you know, watching your work and, you know, a couple other, contractors works that are really good at that kind of stuff.
And then I pick up new ideas and then, you know, spend a lot of time kind of running it through my brain over and over again to really kind of tweak it and understand the whole reason. And like, once you guys understand it and do it, then you can really kind of expand on that. You know, it's the guys who quit learning, right? Stop learning. Right. My buddy Jack Haase, you said if you're not learning, you're dying. And it and it really is like, how fast are you going to be put as the 10th guy in your market instead of the first guy? As soon as you stop learning and the mentality that you have.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. For me, I've done a variety of things in my lifetime. I've, I've had side businesses over the years as well. And I've always said, like, if I'm motivated and I'm striving to get better, I'm really good at what I do. If I'm complacent and just think that everything I know is all I need to know and I'm good, you know, honestly, if I'm complacent in what I do at anything really in life, I'm mediocre at best, you know? And that's really the difference between mediocrity and being one of the best ones in the area. Yes, I love that. And speaking as the best in the area we are in, Unilock land. Yep.
Here in Chicago. Right. Unilock Chicago is amazing. Manufacturing facility, amazing support staff. We know all the guys, that help us out Unilock Chicago here. But one big compliment that I think they gave you is you get to go out and take a look at some of these jobs. Now that it's not always a good thing, because sometimes they're failures. Right? Right. But they're not hiring the biggest company in Chicago to go look at look at these, you know, like jobs that failed. Right? Right. They're they're hiring your company because of your eye for quality, your eye for craftsmanship. Right. So, you know, Unilock Chicago calls you up and says, hey, we have this contractor who did this.
Then you're just another contractor. But we know you do good work. There you go. Take a look at this for us. Yep. Yeah, that is the biggest compliment to me. I feel right there. Yeah. Right in that too. Yes, yes. And a lot of times it's just a consultation. You know I may go and see something and it's, you know, it's not product related. And it's nothing that I can do to help out Unilock who's, you know, sending me there. It's, you know, the contractor use a different product to that. Unilock doesn't back and doesn't support. And then at that point, you know, it's okay. Reach out to those reps and, you know, see if you get Ahold of them or, or whatever.
But I always do, you know, enjoy that. You know, for me part of that is fun as well, even though I am going to like unfortunate situations where there is a problem, but it keeps my brain thinking of like, okay, how did this happen? And then what can I do to try and correct it the best way that I can? You know, what are my options? So it's, I don't know. I find it kind of keeps my brain fresh in terms of like, evaluating everything. Exactly. So we're down here at, at, Aquascape. Right. And you and I both, love the community and part of this. Yeah. Right. So but we've also been talking that why can't we have something like this in our industry. Right, right.
So do you think that's a possibility where we can bring in guys like you myself together and create something like this where we're all speaking the same tune, we're all doing quality craftsmanship and we're all hanging out? I think so, I think so, I think like even locally, especially local to, to this area, you know, there are a handful of contractors that, you know, I've begun networking with over the past couple of years. And they, you know, they're kind of similar, right? Like they do everything correct. You know, they're always working on their designs, making them better. You know, we're always, you know, trying to, you know, make it as a finalist to Unilock Awards for Excellence.
Right. So a lot of us have been like, we've been four times, you know, some of you guys have been five times. Six times. So, you know, they're always trying to do like top level work. And, you know, we all talk about how it'd be nice if the industry as a whole did top level work. Because a lot of times you'll bid against somebody that isn't doing that level work. And as you said, like the apples to jalapenos, right? It's getting that message across to homeowners, you know, your prospective clients that, hey, this is what we're offering. And this is what we do, you know, make sure that everybody else and I don't even really put it that way.
I just kind of highlight what we do and then tell them, like, you know, make sure they're doing open, graded base, you know, make sure like we add drive grid to everything. Right. You know, sidewalk patio doesn't matter. We're putting drive grid. We're putting the non-woven fabric, open graded on everything and will specify all that out in our bids, let the homeowner know. And then that way I'll tell the homeowner like, hey, you know, if you're going to go, you know, if you're shopping around, make sure you're comparing apples to apples and not apples to jalapenos. Exactly. So that's awesome. So you can't tell the passion and pride that this man has. And you want to separate yourself like Dan has in the Chicago market.
You can join the herd at Hardscape Mentor. We are teaching guys to do the same exact thing. Dan sings the tune of Hardscape Mentor. He loves the open graded gospel and he separate himself with quality and craftsmanship. So thank you so much for sitting down here with me today. Dan and I look forward to, where we go from here, brother. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for having me. For sure. Welcome to Hardscape Mentor, the go to training platform for learning real jobsite skills anytime, anywhere. We've created 300 plus video lessons covering everything from design to build patios, walls, inlays, flagstone, turf, resin, sand and more. You can watch anytime, anywhere from your phone, tablet or computer.
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